John Boyne: "We're in a new McCarthyism, where a mistaken opinion can change the way we judge a work."

The image of John Boyne (Dublin, 1971) has changed a lot in the 25 years since the time of The Boy in the Striped Pyjamas . The Irish novelist now seems a much more self-assured man than when he was a child prodigy whose success fell like lightning on a tree. Boyne's talent has also changed. In his new novel, Stairway to Heaven , the narrative revolves around a villain named Maurice, a handsome and charming 20-year-old waiter, determined to become a writer and have children. To achieve this, he will vampirize all the people he seduces: tutors, teachers, wives, students...

Would you be willing to name me writers whose work you admire and who you know were bad people?

Oh, God, I don't think I've ever been very conscious of the morality of the writers I read. And I sense that the opposite may be a mistake. I know we're in an era that represents the opposite; we're in a new McCarthyism, where a mistaken opinion can change the way we judge a work... Deep down, what happens to me is that I have a hard time saying that someone, a writer, is a bad person.

Where were you at 20? Did you already want to be a writer?

I wanted to be a writer since I was nine or 10. I spent my adolescence writing, obsessively focused on becoming a writer. I wrote short stories and sent them to magazines and newspapers. I started publishing before I was 20.

What kind of writer did you want to be?

I don't think I had a clear path yet. I was still learning the skills of a trade. Plot, characters, theme, dialogue... I wasn't thinking about what kind of writer I wanted to be, but rather about growing as a writer. Between the ages of 20 and 25, I began to feel confident that I was a writer and that my destiny was to publish novels. I debuted at 29, exactly a quarter of a century ago. I suppose at that time I was comfortable with the idea of ​​writing more or less historical novels in which my life wasn't present. I didn't want to write anything personal. I followed that path for the first half of my career. When I felt more confident in myself, I wrote The Pacifist , which was also a historical novel and took place during World War I, but which already had something to do with me. It had homosexual characters and a story of loneliness in which I recognized myself. That was in 2012. Since then, that's been my path. I wouldn't say I've become a political writer, but I have begun to become more aware of the world in which I write.

What was his natural talent?

Telling stories. I think... I think I'm good with ideas, that I'm good at having ideas and turning them into novels. What worries me is that I'm getting older and running out of time to develop those ideas. The love for what I do hasn't changed, and I think I write better now than when I started. I'm very ambitious as a writer. I'm 54 years old, and I still think about the books I still have to write.

And don't you miss the days when you wrote less personal books? Wasn't it simpler?

The change was a natural thing, an evolution. I wouldn't be able to write anything so personal if I hadn't previously written historical books about the first half of the 20th century.

Are you a competitive writer?

I'm ambitious, and at the same time, I'm probably the least competitive writer I know. I've never been concerned about other writers' successes or awards. I've seen that in other writers, even friends. They're obsessed with each other's earnings, with awards, with reviews. As a topic of conversation, it exhausts me. I wish all my friends the best of luck, but that's all I have to say about it.

This book presents the complete circuit of creative writing workshops, literary magazines, and literary festivals. From the outside, it's easy to view the entire industry with irony: creativity isn't taught, literary magazines have very small audiences, and festivals seem designed to attract sponsorship.

I have experience with creative writing workshops as both a student and a teacher. They don't teach you how to write, but they encourage you to take your ideas further. They test your ideas, we see how other classmates' ideas grow... I like the idea of ​​mentorship. Besides, no one doubts that film or painting schools make sense. Why wouldn't creative writing schools? They were very useful to me. I'll tell you about literary festivals: they're a blessing for writers because our work is very solitary, and we need to talk to readers, to know we're not alone, sending messages into the void. When someone asks us to sign a copy, all that solitude makes a little more sense... This is all about having readers. I don't really care about sponsorships, as long as they don't force horrible associations on us. Look, I'm also tempted to view the book industry with irony. I'm also aware of its weaknesses and the times we all have to avoid biting the hand that feeds us. But weaknesses like this exist in every industry. This is still a pretty honorable world where people are driven by a love of good books.

Do you like the relationships that develop around literature? The friendship between writers compared to the friendship between two lawyers or two professors?

I suspect it's very similar. Well, our work is subject to public judgment. Excessive praise for a colleague can make us question ourselves. And excessive praise exists in this world. There are books that aren't so special but appear in every newspaper. Our families read them, that's important too. Let's say the only peculiarity of this world is that we are aware of the successes and failures of our colleagues.

There's a very interesting quality about Maurice, the character in Stairway to Heaven : he can write well on any subject, but he has no interesting ideas; he's not creative. Is that your fear as a writer?

It could be, yes. It must be very frustrating to know we have the skill but lack the raw material. I was thinking about people who play the piano very well but can't sing, who have a terrible voice and forbid themselves from going on stage.

Well, that's what happened to Burt Bacharach and he did well.

It's true. I read that Elton John felt incapable of writing lyrics for his songs early in his career. He found a partner, a very good lyricist, and his career took off. I don't prepare plots. I define ideas and develop them to see where they take me. I knew about Maurice that he was going to be someone manipulative, willing to steal the stories of the people who loved him. But I didn't know he was going to be as bad as he is until I got down to it.

What is your biggest fear as a writer?

Losing my passion for what I do. But I can't imagine myself in that situation. I'd hate myself. I've never felt that way. I've always thought the book I was writing was the best book I could write. Even if it wasn't a great work of art.

Do you have a fair opinion of his books? Do you know which ones are good and which ones aren't, and why?

I think so. I could rank them in order of value, from best to worst. The Invisible Furies of the Heart is still my favorite book. This one is next up. I like the complexity of the structure, and the way it blends drama, tragedy, and comedy. It's a personal book that speaks to the world I live in.

I saw that Luisgé Martín presented his latest book in Spain. I don't know if you're aware that Luisgé fell from grace this year, as some of his characters do. I'm not going to ask you about his case, but I would like to ask you about the obsession with other people's infamy. As if every fall from grace makes us happy because it didn't happen to us.

I've also had my share of bad times, my share of phrases that have been misinterpreted and backfired. It wasn't fun at all. The reactions can be so cruel, people can forget their humanity so much when they start writing on social media... And the fact is, I've never seen myself as a provocateur. I've never written against anyone or to cause conflict. Nor have I taken any pleasure in the infamy of others. I've had hard times, I've seen loved ones have hard times. Situations like this test our decency as people.

May I ask you about Gore Vidal's character in this novel? Did you meet him?

I wish I had met Gore Vidal. I've always loved his books, always loved the character he created, so funny and brilliant. When my career took off, he died, so our paths never crossed. I loved turning him into a character, into that man who has the intelligence to see what's behind Maurice's character without being blinded by his beauty and charm.